6: Asking for help

In a world where we revere how impressive people are for doing things “all on their own” no wonder we struggle with asking for help. This week we talk about why it’s hard to ask for help, how we can start to get more comfortable asking for help, and a little bit about how we just like each other.

Things we referenced

Jenny Mitchell’s book - Embracing Ambition

Our episode on people pleasing

Transcript

[00:00:00] Rowan: I'm making myself very vulnerable, and when I make myself very vulnerable, I'm opening myself up to criticism. And I think that is a big reason why people don't ask for help. Welcome to this episode of Unboxing It. I am Rowan.

And I'm Lara.

And today we are going to talk about a thing that I think is gonna make some people feel called out learning to ask for help.

[00:00:51] Lara: Although I will say sounds like from some of the feedback that we've gotten from the podcast so far, potentially most of our episodes are making people feel called out.

[00:01:01] Rowan: Yeah. That there's a lot of people who are like, I am like uncomfortable at how much I feel called out by this, but also thank you. At the same time. So I feel like all these societal messages that we are talking about really are in fact societal messages that are crossing generational gaps. and various other demographics.

[00:01:25] Lara: Yeah. It's time to talk about them more. And so that's why we're just gonna keep unboxing all these things.

[00:01:32] Rowan: That was really good. That was some good marketing there. Just bringing that segue back into the name of the podcast. That's why we have you here, Ms Wellman. So yeah, so today is, this is actually not as hard for me as I think it is for a lot of people, but I'm gonna tell you a bit of a backstory to explain why so.

I wasn't necessarily raised to ask for help. We're Gen X kids, the two of us, and gen X kids were largely told to fend for themselves. Like it was really that whole stereotype of you know, being kicked out in the morning, in the summer and like, go find something to do. Running around with your friends, whatever it is you're doing all day and like coming home when the street lamps come on.

Like that. That was my childhood. I, I don't know about you, Lara , but

[00:02:22] Lara: yeah, I mean, I think I had a little bit more of an overprotective mom, but like compared to what that means now.

[00:02:28] Rowan: Like that

[00:02:29] Lara: is not, that is not what that meant then

[00:02:31] Rowan: like Gen X overprotective. Yeah. It's very

[00:02:35] Lara: different

[00:02:35] Rowan: my mom used to be like you can go to the park, but you can't go alone. You have to go with a friend. And that was weird because most of my friends would just be going to the park on the road like that. Yeah. So, yes, I'm with you on that. I did sometimes have a check-in once or twice during the day, but really I learned that if there was a problem, I.

I had to deal with it on my own. That takes me to the tender age of 14, and at 14 years old, I sat down with my parents after getting into a lot of trouble, getting kicked outta school running away from home, a whole bunch you know, and just being in a really bad place. And I said, I'm having a hard time.

I can't stop drinking every time I'm stressed. I drink every time. I'm sad, I drink. And I don't know what to do about it. And to make a long story short, my mom got on the phone with anybody who would listen. She called everywhere. She talked to everybody, and finally somebody said, yes, we can get your child into a rehab center.

So I went to a live-in rehab center for six months. That changed my perspective on asking for help because I did ask for help. I received the help and that help ultimately saved my life. I, I learned that I didn't have to go at it alone. And even in the rest of my life where I've run into tricky situations, I've been able to tap into the resources that are available and ask for that help.

But that is me and that is a rare find. I have found.

[00:04:14] Lara: Yeah. I think that there are some people who never want to ask for help. There are some people who will ask for help, like around certain categories of things, but other ones they won't. Right? Like there's certain ways that we feel about what it means about us to ask for help, and I think that's why most people don't wanna ask for help.

It's not 'cause they're trying to not be a burden. It's because they're worried that by asking for help. That is going to say something about who they are.

[00:04:43] Rowan: My partner went on stress leave a little while ago, and I remember even in that situation her feeling worried that going on stress leave, asking her doctor for help asking for that time off from her employer would put her in a situation where she might be viewed as less trustworthy.

Less reliable, right? She would be seen perhaps as a burden, and if they were to do some layoffs, she might end up at the top of the list. So what do you do when you are dealing with something and you're afraid that asking for help might make it worse? It's tricky, right? Because there are going to be some people who think that.

[00:05:31] Lara: And there are some people who aren't going to think that. Like I think that this is that whole, like there's no one size fits all. Like, oh, don't worry about it. Like I think there is some nuance here, right? Like we need to really think about who we're talking to and understand it a bit. At the same time, asking for help and feeling like that means.

That maybe we're weak or that we are incapable, or that we don't know as much as we're supposed to know, like all of that kind of stuff. If we reframe what that means into it being like, I am trying to do something better for everybody, right? Like the idea that we have to do everything alone makes no sense to me, but.

It's so societally praised.

[00:06:18] Rowan: Yeah, it's seen as, a strength somehow. And it's funny because we are communal animals like we are meant to be in groups, work in groups universally this is true. And everybody of course likes their alone time to some extent, some of us more than others, but. We function as a society because it is imperative we do.

So then why do we talk about, this idea that people are lonelier than ever. This idea that people feel more isolated than ever and that we all should come together and, spend more time do more and share more. , And then at the same time say, oh, but also if you have a problem.

It's a good idea to just deal with it on your own because that's what strong people do. And can I say, I'm just gonna say this I've noticed this more in male culture than I have anywhere else. I don't know if you find that as well, but I will say as a trans guy moving from largely female dominated.

Spaces to now sort of tiptoeing into male dominated spaces, the male dominated spaces, there is a lot more of that toxic belief that you should just go it alone on everything.

[00:07:36] Lara: Which is so terrible because do you know how bad it is for all the women I've been talking to? Like to think it's even worse?

It's very disheartening. I totally believe you. It totally makes sense. I haven't witnessed a lot, but like, ah, like it's so frustrating to me that we're all trying to do things alone when we don't need to. And I mean, you're right, we are communal. Beings, I think, you know, they say, they say again, this is when everybody's gonna learn.

I like to say I've heard things, but I can't tell you who I heard it from or whether it's true. But that, you know, living communally was like for parenting for example. Like the fact that people are trying to raise kids without any support system truly is harder. Than other ways of raising kids. Like it is absolutely easier to have a community of people who are looking out for your kids as you're raising them.

But our whole society has become, well, north American society is all about just you and Like many of the things that we talk about, I'm sure that I believe capitalism is hugely to blame because it's all about competition. How can you be the best? How can you prove to everybody that you are at the top?

And if it's all about you being at the top and not some kind of communal wellbeing, then that means we can't bring in the other people.

[00:09:04] Rowan: Yeah, we operate in silos for sure. it is a lot about getting what's mine and unfortunately getting what's yours can come at a big price because it can land us into situations where you know, there's, I wanna go back 'cause I think there's like this expectation of success as well that plays into this.

So we hear a lot of talk about, , well. At your age, you should have a family, and then you should have a home, and you should have a job, and you should have a car. I'm just throwing some stuff out here. It's different for everybody. But these are sort of common beliefs. Like at my age, for example, I should have a home.

My home should be paid off. 'cause I'm nearing 50 now. And, all my children should be growing up and going to university and, you know, I should be probably at the highest high of my career at my age, right? There shouldn't be too much further up. I can go, I should be there and making a good amount of money, and I should be able to pay all of my bills.

And I should be happy. I should be happy because I have made it. That's making it. And I should be with a partner and be in love, and I mean, I can just go on and on and on. And what if one or more of those things is not true, that then can be seen as failure? I'm failing in some areas and I'm going to look bad to other people.

They're going to view me differently. And then I'm not going to necessarily tell somebody if, say, my relationship is falling apart or if one of my kids is struggling really hard in school or with mental health, or if my own mental health is not in a good place, or if I don't really make that much money and I'm way behind on my bills.

And the minute that I start telling people about that, which can be the gateway to asking for more help and support. I'm making myself very vulnerable, and when I make myself very vulnerable, I'm opening myself up to criticism. And I think that is a big reason why people don't ask for help.

[00:11:10] Lara: Absolutely. if you think about that, right, like so if it's at work, and I know that there are a lot of people who really struggle to ask for help at work.

They want to try. To prove to the people that hired them that they're very capable and therefore asking for help might make it seem like they are not very capable. And these are the, like, how do we change the conversation so you're not coming up to people and saying like, Hey Rowan, I'm really bad at the thing you wanted me to do and hired me to do so.

Can you help me be good at it? Like that is not. How, if you think about it, of course, if you think that way, you're gonna feel like it's a very bad idea to do that. But if you think instead that it's something like, I know you're really knowledgeable about a thing, I can't be knowledgeable about everything until I've.

ever, but I'm not always knowledgeable about something until I've done it and I am much better off to ask you to help me figure it out. It might take five or 10 minutes than for me to spend two days trying to figure it out on my own. That is actually not better for anybody. So if you think about it as.

Like gaming the system. I don't know what, kind of hack you can do it, but like if you flip it so that when you think asking for help isn't a bad thing, like it's not something that's like uncovering your weaknesses, but it's something that lets you be the best that you could be or that you want to be.

It just takes away so much of the angst that comes from asking for help.

[00:12:47] Rowan: Yeah, it's empowering It's actually, I think one of the things that has come with age for me is this confidence in not having all the answers and. If I don't have all the answers, because, hey, I'm human, and I, like you said, I can't possibly know everything as you know, brilliant as I am.

[00:13:09] Lara: I know I do know a lot though.

[00:13:13] Rowan: I mean, I do know a lot, but I think like it then becomes an act of empowerment for me to seek out that information. Rather than a weakness for me to seek out that information. But it does require vulnerability, and I'm gonna go back to that again because, Ooh, humans, we do not like to be vulnerable.

No, we do not like it. Because it's like opening yourself up and then giving power over to whoever you're opening yourself up to. To support you in that and not criticize and harm you for it.

[00:13:50] Lara: Yeah, and I think in a lot of ways we are taught to expect people to try to attack us if given the chance to try to overpower us or to.

Push us down. Like there's certainly a lot of messages in the world that tell us people are not gonna be nice if we give them the opportunity to not be nice.

[00:14:11] Rowan: Yeah. I think the internet has shown us that for sure. Which I think leads me to a, a piece of advice or a suggestion that I would make, which is if you're feeling particularly vulnerable about asking for help.

Be careful where you ask for help. If you're just asking a standard question and you know, you want to hit as many people as possible for that answer, then asking online is a great idea. Sometimes for more sensitive stuff, especially if this is not your forte, going to the internet first might be a bad idea, but there.

Are certainly some people in most of our lives that we can feel safer with, and I think those are the people that it would, serve us best to go to them first.

[00:14:55] Lara: Yeah, know who your safe people are. There's a concept that my friend Jenny Mitchell wrote about in her book, which is.

Having like your own personal board of directors, like who are the people that you think of as the people you go to when you need to solve a problem, when you need to figure out what's going to come next. So that's probably for like bigger life decisions, but it's still good to know like who are your people?

Like spending some time thinking about that is a good idea. Understanding who can help you with what, when, and why, if you don't have anybody that you trust, maybe it's time to go looking for some new people too.

[00:15:34] Rowan: Yeah, I think sometimes these lessons of, you ask somebody like, why don't you ask for help on that?

And they'll say, I'm tired of relying on people. I just get burned, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, that's an old wound. That's a trauma, if you will, and. We learned those things early on. As someone with childhood trauma, with a childhood trauma disorder, I have complex PTSD. It can be harder for someone like me to trust because I was taught not to trust from a very young age, and I have had to learn where to safely trust people.

So I. for example, not all the doctors that I've met are doctors that I would go to for a problem. Mm-hmm. But I really like my family doctor. I trust him a lot. And I feel like I can tell him just about anything and he's going to help me solve the problem. Right. So it is a question of surrounding yourself with as many people as you can, who you know you can rely on.

I also think that vulnerability is almost a muscle that we have to exercise, if you're not used to being vulnerable and asking for help, I think putting out the really big thing can be daunting. Too. Daunting, and you might not do it. You can start small. Just small little things. Maybe you need help.

Declutter in your bedroom and maybe your sister might be someone to ask to help you with that, right? Like you start with these small things maybe. And I mean, for someone else to be like, well, yeah, of course I'd ask for help with that, but hear me out. Like, not everybody is there. Not everybody is used to asking for help.

For something like that, that might seem shameful. Like, I don't want someone to see my messy bedroom, but if you really need help, you know, find those little tiny. Things to get help with and build up from there.

[00:17:34] Lara: Yeah, and I did have an instance where I invited some friends to help me declutter, and that shame was the biggest thing that made it difficult because you're like, why can't I do this by myself?

Like, I should be able to do this by myself. How did it get this messy, like, right, but. In an instant. The two friends I asked to help me with it were like, yes. Came, helped me get so much of it done. And then I was just talking to one of them again. I was like, I might need that kind of help again.

And here's the other thing is I'm like, but I'm gonna put a boundary on it, which is, you can't, ask me to get rid of everything unless it was my idea to get rid of it. Like, we're gonna sort it, we're gonna organize it. But if you are gonna ask me to get rid of stuff, I can't do it right now.

Right? Like right now, , my feelings around my stuff has to come from me. And if you keep asking me to, I'm not gonna cope. So I put a boundary around it and she said, okay, I will not ask you to get rid of stuff only if you want to. And it's amazing. People are like, okay, right. Like when you ask for help, there's so many people.

Who want to help. And I think the flip side and how you feel about helping people is a good reminder, but we don't think about that a lot. Right. So do you like helping people? Right. Like if somebody that I love needs help and I can help them, even somebody that I just know, right? Like, I mean, I guess that's part of the reason I'm a coach because that is part of what I really like doing.

But I really like to help people. So why don't I wanna let other people have the opportunity to help me? It's when you think not asking for help is selfish. We're gonna just flip it around. It's selfish not to ask for help. No. You are denying your loved ones the opportunity to do something that feels good for them.

[00:19:25] Rowan: It's true. First of all, if we still lived in the same city. I would be your decluttering bestie because I love decluttering Big L, big L love it is one of my favorite things to do to the point where if I wasn't doing the stuff that I'm doing now, that would be my business. I would go into people's homes and I would just work magic.

Because, we're all good at something. So if you were to ask me to come help you, I would have a great time. I would get something out of it, not just because I love decluttering, but also because. I care about you and it would make me feel really good. You've helped me in the past.

Now I get to help you. That reciprocity, Ooh, that that I had to pull that one outta my brain. I was like, what is the word Rowan used the word. after we've done this episode, I'm gonna go Google the word and make sure that I both used the right one and used it correctly.

[00:20:21] Lara: I believe you did

[00:20:23] Rowan: HRT. I'm just gonna put it out there. As an aside, testosterone made me a little less smart than I used to be. That's the truth. That's the truth. But I'm hoping that my charm makes up for it, because the confidence that I have in myself as a man is through the roof, because of course it is.

[00:20:44] Lara: Of course it is.

[00:20:45] Rowan: Of course. It's so, it kind of makes up for it Anyway. I digress. I also think that vulnerability in asking for help, vulnerability in any way, sharing a story like I did, I opened up with a story with this and I told everyone I went to rehab at 14 years old. That's not a thing that most people are just gonna share right at the start.

That could be considered oversharing in some circles, but on a podcast, I felt like it was appropriate. Also, I've written about it twice in books, but, I made myself vulnerable and what I hope that does every time I do it and every time I do ask for help, then I am making it okay for everyone else in proximity to me.

I. that, for them to do the same thing, right? If I'm being vulnerable with you, I've just shared something very personal, you now can share something very personal with me. If I am asking for help and showing that that's okay, I sincerely hope that you now know it is okay to do the same. So I think the way to break this cycle in society in general is for more of us to just do it.

Just be honest. Be honest where we're at. It goes right down to, I mean, yougo to the grocery store. Hi. How are you today? Good. And yourself? Good, thanks. We don't mean it, nobody means it. We, we, we just say it and that's okay. 'cause like we're not gonna have a big you know, emotional sesh with the cashier.

They have five people behind you they need to see. So like, that's okay. But it really does speak to this idea that everyone's supposed to be okay in polite society all the time. And if you're not, that's weird. And I really do think that that is directly related to our inability to ask for help sometimes.

[00:22:37] Lara: Yes, I agree. And I think there's so many layers to it, right? Like I think I'm thinking about so many of them to the point that I think. Generations older than us also are just supposed to be agreeable. I feel like that's more a thing in generations older than us. So like they're they, whatever it is, I don't need help.

I'm okay. I don't wanna bother you. I feel like that can be a reason that we don't ask for help. I think talking about all of this stuff makes a huge difference. I've talked a lot about my A DHD and. I think that being honest with people that like I'm not always good at following up on things, so if I drop a ball, just tell me.

And then other people are like astonished that I'll just say, I might forget, but I'm like, but it's true and I don't need to be perfect. And that's a whole other topic. I don't need to be perfect, but we talked about perfectionism before, but the fear of failure is a whole other topic we could dig into sometime.

And then there's one last thing that I was thinking as we were talking, which is something that I struggle with sometimes. Maybe I know I need help, but I don't know what that help is. And if I don't know what I need to ask for, I think I need to figure it out before I can ask for it. And that's where.

People don't like, they're like, I don't know what I need. How am I supposed to ask for help? I don't understand what isn't working. I don't understand that I need help even maybe, right? Like I'm just like I don't know.

[00:24:06] Rowan: yeah, yeah. 'cause it can get all muddled sometimes, but that's where talking it out with somebody can really help.

That's where, having a good friend can really help too. Just go, how are you feeling today? Not great actually. What's going on? I don't know. I don't know. But something's not right and I don't really know what I need right now. It's also okay to not know what you need.

[00:24:28] Lara: It is,

and I've realized that I am more of a verbal processor than I thought.

My therapist and I were talking about this recently where I like, I can't be the kind of person who just says I know something's up. I need to make an appointment because I won't do it. But if we have a regular session where I'm just gonna talk, that's how I figure out what's wrong.

[00:24:54] Rowan: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. I actually think that's gonna be more helpful for people than you might even realize having just said that because.

I'm like that too. And I did not realize that until you said it. I'm like, why do I always talk about my feelings? Like I? am forever. I'm, the talk about your feelings guy. I am like probably. The guy that a lot of girls say that they want, but like 20% more than that. Like a little, not that much. A little, yeah, exactly.

Hold back there, Rowan. We also wanna watch TV together without having to talk about feelings all the time. But, that is a thing for me where sometimes I just need to go ugh, and just like get it all out. And in that I kinda look at what it is that I just. Spewed out into the world and I go, oh, there it is.

Right there, there. That's the thing that's actually bothering me. That's what I need help with. So see you help me with your vulnerability and now you can help others.

[00:25:59] Lara: See, this is what this is all about. This is what I love because I like helping people.

[00:26:05] Rowan: I know it's a nice trait.

One of the other things I was thinking is that this also falls into people pleasing. I don't think we touched on that yet, but I really wanna say it because as a recovering people pleaser who still has the odd slip up. That's where I get stuck in asking for help sometimes where I don't wanna burden the other people around me.

Like I have this chronic lower back issue right now. It's driving me crazy. And I was telling you earlier, I wear a chest binder because I'm a trans guy and I'm waiting for top surgery. And when I go out and during the day, I tend to wear a binder to kind of squish everything down. And the.

Thing that's starting to happen after over a year of doing this is my lower back is really starting to hurt me, and I have found that I'm hesitant to ask for help because in my mind I should be able to do the yard work. I should be able to unload the dishwasher. I should be, you know, and like, why would I ask somebody else who just worked all day, or why would I ask this person who like I, you know, it's like we all have lives, we all have problems.

I can manage it. And that's me trying to people please, right? I want to make everyone else around me happy. I wanna put everybody else ahead of me. All of them. Their problems are bigger, their lives are busier, and therefore I should just do it. And. My partner actually sat me down and was like, you need to stop doing this.

Like it is actually driving me crazy that you are not asking for help in this regard. Like, I know you're sore. I can do it. I'm not sore and you're still not asking me. I'm like, well, I don't wanna be, oh, you're gonna love this term. Lazy,

[00:27:53] Lara: uh,

[00:27:54] Rowan: Uhhuh, Uhhuh. I don't wanna be lazy because the idea of me sitting down while she does that makes me feel terrible, but does it make her feel terrible?

She wants to help me. So yeah, people pleasing can definitely play a big role in this.

[00:28:09] Lara: And so I totally get that because even though I don't think lazy is a thing, if my husband starts cleaning while I'm watching tv, I. It feels, and I know for a fact that it's not what he's trying to say to me. It feels like I am not being a good partner if I let him.

Tidy up while I'm watching tv. Right. Like now. Now you're doing more than me. Now I feel bad that you're doing that. And I didn't do that before because I could have done it before I was just sitting here. Right. Like all of it comes up in like this, like it's totally inside me.

[00:28:46] Rowan: Yep.

[00:28:47] Lara: But like that's, that's the thing, the judgment, it doesn't just come from other people, like internalized a million different things. It's true, right? Like I judge myself more than I think anybody else does, and when I slowly learn to catch myself in it and be like, that's not what I should believe, then I can start to change it.

Like knowing something is the first step

[00:29:15] Rowan: true. That's right. Yeah. Recognizing where it's coming from. And a lot of times this is just internal messaging. We are just, we just have these little, well, we use tapes. I've noticed that like, it's like a tape just playing around. You tell that to somebody who's, you know,

Gen Z and they sort of look at you like, what do you mean a tape? That's just, but it's true. It's just like, it's just on repeat, right? It's this message over, and I have the exact same one, by the way, the idea of someone cleaning while I'm resting. Wow. No, no, can't do that. That would make me a terrible person.

So, yeah, totally hear you on that. What do you think is the thing that you have the hardest time asking for help with?

[00:30:02] Lara: That's a good question. Again, I think part of it is not even thinking to ask for help. Like I do think one of my biggest things isn't even allowing myself to think I should need help, let alone I.Asking for it. I do ask for help in some things, but others, so what do I not feel comfortable asking for help with?

I think it's things that might make it seem like I'm incapable, that I'm not, for example, holding my weight, that I'm not, you know, able to adult by myself, that I'm not a capable person. In all that it's meant to be to whatever I've defined. I guess it's not even a societal, like whatever I've decided makes me a capable person.

If suddenly, like if I need help with something, like can you help me make dinner? No big deal. If I need help with, I don't know. Let's say I needed to ask somebody for money that would make me feel really, really vulnerable and uncomfortable if I had to tell somebody that I wasn't able to take care of something for my children by myself.

Like it's all that kind of stuff, right? Like, what are people gonna say or think or me? What am I gonna think if I need help with something that I think adults should be able to do without help?

[00:31:13] Rowan: Yeah. I mean, I think that's really. Pretty common, right? Yeah. This, because again, it goes back to those societal expectations of where you are supposed to be at this time in your life.

[00:31:25] Lara: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:26] Rowan: And some of that is you know, what you've come to believe and some of that is what you've been told from the get go. Right. My big thing that I've started asking for help with more recently, it's not the lower back thing actually. That I was really embarrassed about for a very long time.

I have a on again, off again, health anxiety. So people might know it there's a lot of different names for health anxiety disorders. One of them being the older term of hypochondria, right? Always thinking there's something wrong. So for me it will be, I have some kind of.

Probably very benign symptom. And in my mind it just jumps to absolute worst case scenario, like headache is a brain tumor, or gas is some kind of colon cancer. Like, you know, this is what happens and. I understand logically that that is ridiculous, right? That like, that is the least likely thing that whatever is going on is, and that, you know, it's not persistent enough for whatever, that I should go seek help for it.

This is like this just came up, in the last two or three days or something, right? And I used to be really quiet about it because I was so ashamed. Because it is kind of laughable when you say it out loud, right. But it, it's a real disorder and it's something that I have tools to deal with, but when I get really, really stressed out in other areas of my life, I have a lot of other things going on.

My brain tries to find something to hyper focus on, and that's what it will focus on. And what I've started doing, which has been very hard, is I have a very. Small, trusted group of people that I can say, so anyway, this thing is happening in my body and what I'm telling myself is this, and I know it's not that, but I just need to say it out loud.

Mm-hmm. And get you to also tell me that it's not that. And, you know, we might have a little laugh about it, but it's a gentle laugh. It's not a judgmental laugh. Right. it's like shining a big spotlight on the monster and making it run away. And that helps me long term.

'cause it helps me kind of go, yep, you know what? Now my brain understands that it's more likely this, then I'm good. But when I didn't do that and my other tools didn't work. I could obsess on things for hours or days or even weeks, that honestly were not a big deal. So that's where asking for help, even with the really hard stuff can be really beneficial.

And that's where building your circle of trust to be able to do that can make a difference.

[00:34:12] Lara: And that's where the practicing. Makes it easier because, you know, while that sounds like this huge thing to ask for, it probably is the first time, but by the time you've done it 20 times or you know, every time you're like a little worried, like, the thing I might say is the story I'm telling myself right now is this, this terrible, terrible, terrible.

Right,

[00:34:34] Rowan: right.

[00:34:35] Lara: But if you've set it up in a place where in your life it's normal. To just say, I am verbalizing this. I need your feedback. One for me is that I need people to watch me lock the front door and then jiggle it to prove that it's locked.

Mm-hmm.

And I don't say, okay, watch me do this, I will drive away and then have to come back because I'm not sure I did it.

[00:34:59] Rowan: Yep.

[00:34:59] Lara: So it's just standard now. So many people, my friends, my family, know. I'll be like, I locked it. And they'll be like, you locked it, and then that's it. That's all it took, right? But like the first time you'd be like, I don't know why I need to ask people to do this for me. Like, it feels silly, but now it's just normal.

So when you find the little things, I think this is true across the board, the little things that we can do to make life easier are worth doing.

[00:35:23] Rowan: Yeah. That's what it is. I really hope that this episode is a way for people to see that they are no more broken, if you will, than anyone else, right?

We all have our things we need help with. And I,use the term broken because that's the story we often tell ourselves, I'm so dysfunctional, I am so broken. I need so much help. And when we all get more vulnerable, we all get more honest with each other. You start to see that, hey, that isn't actually the case.

there's this idea sometimes when I meet people, when I do book signings or whatever, and they'll say, you know, your life just seems so perfect. So put together. I'm like, well, first of all, you need to read my books a little more closely. But also that's what everyone's life often looks like from the outside.

Not everybody. Mm-hmm. But most of us have a really, we have a skillset that allows us to go out into the world and put our best foot forward. And what we're showing there isn't the whole story. The whole story is that we all have issues and we all need somebody else from time to time. And I really, really wanna drive that home that if you are listening right now and you are struggling with something, you are absolutely not alone in struggling with something and that your something is not.

Way worse than other people's. Some things it probably seems that way. Just like every time that I have some health anxiety scare, I'm convinced that I am so broken and so weird, and so, you know that nobody's going to, how could anybody listen to me and support me and love me through it? And yet that's what happens every time.

So it's okay. To not be okay. And it is okay to ask for help.

[00:37:23] Lara: And even if that help is to have somebody help you figure out what you need help with, right? Like it's okay to just be uncertain. It's okay to not be positively confident about everything. And the more we can let ourselves figure that stuff out, the better we are.

And I think that that's why. Podcasts like this. I know it's true in a lot of , the stuff that I share, the reason like people like it so much is because nobody realizes that. Most people think that they think they're the only one in this little bubble feeling terrible and not being good at something.

And when we're all like, Hey, do you realize most people feel that way? They're like, what? No. Normalizing talking about this stuff I think is really important.

[00:38:11] Rowan: Let's all be broken together. No, that's not what I want to end with. Nope, that's not it. No.

[00:38:18] Lara: I think let's all believe that asking for help and asking for what we need, because sometimes it doesn't feel like help.

Right? Like I don't know that somebody. Double checking. I lock the doors help so much as just asking for what we need and knowing that we deserve to get the things that we need, like that is worth figuring out how to do and not shying away from.

[00:38:43] Rowan: See, that's why I don't do this podcast alone.

You are the wise woman on the hill and I am very grateful to hike on up there and hang out with you for a few minutes once a week. I really am. Wow, .

[00:39:00] Lara: Thank you for doing this with me too. I feel like a lot of gratitude in this moment actually, that we get to do this.

[00:39:07] Rowan: I know, right?

Mm-hmm. I know. Me too. Me too. It's again, a testament of how doing things together can have the best outcomes. And that is it for this week's episode of Unboxing It.

Thank you so much for joining us.