Layoffs. Breakups. Illness. No matter how diligently we plan out our lives, unexpected change comes for us all in some form or another. It can feel like a giant kick in the teeth, too.
But these unexpected twists can often come with some unexpected gifts.
This week’s episode of Unboxing It covers all kinds of advice and insight on how to navigate change. And it couldn’t come at a better time, because as a result of some big unexpected life changes, Rowan is opening a queer lil’ coffee shop with his partner Dani!
Listen to our podcast episode (obviously) but if you want to support Rowan’s new venture, you can also watch the coffee shop announcement video, subscribe to their Youtube channel, follow their socials, and even buy some merch.
Unexpected change isn’t always welcome, but it often comes with some big opportunities for growth—or early mornings pulling espresso shots. Or both.
Want more of Lara and Rowan?
Rowan is available for speaking engagements, and Lara has coaching spots available.
Transcript
(please note, we do not edit the transcript for accuracy so this is entirely what a robot thinks we said)
Hey, Rowan here. Just a note that we recorded this podcast a few weeks ago when I was at the beginning of doing something really scary and dealing with some big unexpected changes. If you follow me on social media, you know that we've made some announcements by now and are moving forward with this, but I don't think it hurts to go back and see what it feels like right at the start of dealing with those big changes.
Enjoy.
[00:00:48] Rowan: we are unboxing , quite the it today. Something that is near and dear to my heart and probably the hearts of many people, navigating sudden change. Not, not just, change, right? Like change is just part of life and sometimes we plan that change and even that might veer off in a direction we don't anticipate.
But sudden change is a different kind of beast. I don't know. What do you think about that?
[00:01:20] Lara: Absolutely. we struggle with change a lot of the time. But there's a very different way of dealing with it when you know it's coming or when you chose for it's coming, versus it just suddenly appearing out of nowhere.
And that is something that also happens, but it is that unexpected sudden. Hey, guess what you get to deal with? That is really tricky for a lot of people to know how to handle it.
[00:01:52] Rowan: What types of sudden change come to mind in your own life? If I just say what was a very big surprise in your, decades of life so far?
What's the first thing that comes up?
[00:02:04] Lara: It's funny because I think that I am the sudden change to a lot of other people. Like I'm the one who comes up with like, I'm going to change everything for everybody ready. You're
[00:02:14] Rowan: a chaos gremlin.
[00:02:15] Lara: I'm chaos gremlin of like, not just my immediate family, but like my extended family. I'm trying to think of something that wasn't, because if it was my idea, I knew it was coming.
[00:02:27] Rowan: you might have only known for five minutes knowing you though.
[00:02:30] Lara: True. But then that doesn't feel sudden, does it? yeah. I think that a lot of it is just like, you know when something happens, that you don't know. Even if it was like suddenly realizing that I had a DHD suddenly understanding and accepting that I.
Was sick. Right. So that would be one when I got sick very suddenly. that's not true. I was sick. I just dealt with it. I very suddenly became incapacitated.
[00:03:03] Rowan: right.
[00:03:04] Lara: And so dealing with being somebody who can't do what they want to do was tough for me. Right. Like accepting that kind of change. Like who am I and what's going on?
But there's other examples and, I'm not sure that because I, I thrive in change, right? So this is, what makes it trickier because for some people, the way they feel when they encounter what I encounter, I'm like, yeah, awesome. Let's do it. And somebody else is like, my world just fell apart, right?
And so. The same thing can feel like multiple things to people, which is why I feel like I'm not coming up with any good examples to share with you for my life.
[00:03:41] Rowan: Wow.
I can name like 12 different things, although I say 12, I don't know if I can name 12, but I think the first big sudden change for me was that so I'm the eldest of four.
I was eight years old when my sister was born. They were second marriage children. 10 when my brother was born and when I was 12, my mom got pregnant a fourth time. The baby that she was carrying, who has grown up to be my amazing youngest brother, she found out, had down syndrome.
That was a life changing thing for the whole family. I look back now, I can look back. He's in his mid thirties now, right? So I can, look at it now and go, that was a tumultuous time because there were so many unknowns and there was a lot of fear, a lot of uncertainty.
And now, him being in our lives is, seriously one of the best things that's ever happened to my family. There's no doubt. Mike has taught us, what unconditional love looks like. He has taught us what true kindness looks like. He has taught us what.
being human at the core is, and he's taught us patience and he taught us just all these different things that I just, you know, he taught me advocacy because I watched my mom advocate for him so I can go back and I can go. Mike joining our family was a gift. It really, you know, he is, he is a gift.
He's amazing. But we all had identities that were tied to the existence that we knew before he was born. And I think that can be the hardest thing for people to wrap their heads around when change is thrusted upon you rather than you seeking it out. So, you know, from my parents, there was this idea that,
Yeah, my mom stayed home, but she could always go back to work if she wanted to. Right. But when Mike was born, there were a lot of medical complications and he's doing much better today, but he still deals with a lot of medical stuff and suddenly my mom and dad's life especially looked like, oh, we have a lot more caretaking to do and it's going to go longer than we anticipated when we first decided to have children.
He still lives at home. He's in his mid thirties. Right. So I look at that stuff and how it shapes us. when I found out that my child was trans, for example, one of our children is trans and they came out 11 years ago and. I remember thinking, oh, wow, like my role has changed.
I used to think I was a parent to three boys. I was mistaken. I actually have two boys and I have a child who is not a boy. Right? and so when I look at it that way, for me, the sudden change is more about accepting that my worldview and the plans that I had are not the reality anymore. And learning to be okay with that.
[00:06:35] Lara: Yeah. And again, some of it is, I think, my perception of what big change was. 'cause certainly I've had big moments, I found out at my 12 week ultrasound of my second pregnancy that I was having twins. Yeah, right.
[00:06:52] Rowan: Yeah.
[00:06:52] Lara: But I also was like. I kind of wondered if I was having twins before, right? Like, there's so many things, but I still didn't really think it was happening until, that day with the ultrasound tech, who clearly, I will just tell you, a lot of people have clearly not taken that news well because when she told us we were having twins, it was said very much like this.
Congratulations. You are having twins like put down very scared.
[00:07:25] Rowan: Oh. I mean, that is a big change. You're planning for one child, you find out you're having two at once. Yeah. That's a lot.
[00:07:33] Lara: It is a lot. And I tell people all the time, twins is way more than twice as hard as one baby.
[00:07:41] Rowan: Oh, I believe that. I believe that.
Yeah. I mean, I complain, as a trans guy, prior to transition, I gave birth three times and all three of my children were over 10 pounds at birth. And so the joke has always been, I essentially gave birth to twins, but I'm like, no, because you know what? There's only one baby to feed after that.
Yes, okay. Yes, they're hungry all the time because they're 10 pounds. But at the same time, it's a whole new world. And this is the thing. We can think ahead and try and plan for everything, but there, really is no way to know when life is going to slap you upside the head with something.
[00:08:19] Lara: Not only that, just like how you're going to react to something, you could go through change that you fully chose and it wasn't sudden at all, but like you get to the other side and it's much harder than you thought it was going to be, or you don't like it the way you thought you were going to like it.
That is all possible. And so as somebody who. Is happy to live in change. This is not a problem for me, but for other people, this is a big problem, right? Like I'm not trying to scare people into being like, actually guys, it turns out nothing is ever sure. You never know what's gonna happen. It could all go wrong all the time.
Like that is not what I'm trying to do here. But at the same time, there's a little bit of, we don't know what's coming and so how do we. Still just live a life that works and be true to ourselves and follow our values and know who the people are that we can rely on and understand how to create a support system so that regardless of what happens, we know how to have the right sort of protection around us to be okay.
[00:09:30] Rowan: Great. Can you teach me how to do that? Yeah, because here's the thing. I have an anxiety disorder and so, you know, people often say it like this, you know, depression is living in the past, anxiety is living in the future, and anxiety for me. It is all about what if, what if, what if, what if? Oh, let's catastrophize this.
what if, oh, you know I, I run the gamut of anxiety issues. And so change no, historically has not been comfortable for me. But the nice thing about approaching 50, so I've been doing this for a while now, and I have been through, probably, I would argue more change than the average person.
And more unplanned change than the average person. I've learned to make peace with it and even embrace it at this point, because it's about now when change hits and it does, and I'm gonna get into some recent change in a little bit, I'm able to go, okay, well, I've made it through every other situation where things have turned upside down.
I've come out better and, better equipped, wiser, stronger, definitely more resilient. And so that has helped me weather a lot of this. now when it hits, it's less, it's less terrifying, I guess, that it used to be. I don't know. I, I know you don't have the same relationship with it, but I wonder what your thoughts are on, wisdom and age and change.
[00:11:00] Lara: And I have thoughts. I wanna get into that, but I also wanted to say first, the very first time I ever heard you speak, it might have been the very first time you did a formal talk, was all about like how uncomfortable with change you were.
[00:11:14] Rowan: Is it really? Oh my goodness. That must have been years ago.
[00:11:17] Lara: I was a very long time ago.
Because, yeah, I think that this would've been when like the idea of doing a talk in front of a group of people would've been scary to you because that was new.
[00:11:30] Rowan: Oh, it sure was. It sure was.
[00:11:33] Lara: and you have gone through many a change Rowan.
[00:11:36] Rowan: What do you mean?
[00:11:43] Lara: I think that we learn what we're Capable of, right? Like the more we do things, the more we learn what we're capable of. And therefore the older we get, the more likely it is that we have experienced things that forced us to confront what we're capable of and we move on and we get better and we get more comfortable with it.
And things do get easier the more we understand what we're capable of, who we are. And how life just kind of works. And so I do think the older we get, the easier it gets and I'm also approaching 50 and I'm not remotely uncomfortable about that because every decade. I've hit has been better than the last, right?
Like, I'm more comfortable in my skin. I am more confident as a person. I don't care as much what other people think. Like I think that with age that comes, it's not automatic. You do need to do some work to get there, but it does get there if you're willing to like look inside and try to figure out who you are.
If you don't try to look at how you feel or how things are going, right? If you're like, I'm putting my head in the sand and never thinking about how hard things are, I don't know that things will get easier.
If you're willing to look at things to confront, some things to be introspective, I think the older you get, the easier things get.
[00:13:10] Rowan: Yeah. I also think that the people who I've met who had a plan growing up and that plan came to fruition and they went through their lives with very little upheaval. Let's just say, you know, like I, I, do know somebody who, knew what she wanted to do when she went to school, went to school for it, knew she wanted to get married and have a child.
Did that, then got got her dream job. and then she lost her dream job She didn't know how to deal with it. It was really, really hard for her to be laid off. , It was the first big unexpected thing that had ever happened to her before. And she made it through.
Of course she did. But I would say, and I think she would probably say it was a lot harder for her than if she had had those experiences earlier where something had not gone the way she had planned. And I'm not wishing for that for everybody. That's not what I'm saying. But I'm saying that if you are somebody who has had a lot of this type of stuff,
You do kind of get used to it. You do kind of get used to, oh, okay. Yeah, I had this idea. That's not happening. All right. So I have to go over here and I have to do it this way, maybe, Okay. We're gonna try over here. Okay. This is an opportunity and that is actually what I've started to look at things, as when they happen unexpectedly.
So I'm gonna get into something that is really personal and just wanna stay upfront. Usually I take some notes before we record these things. So I have talking points. I did not make a single note for this, and I think it's because it's really personal and really timely for me right now. In fact, I'm the one who asked that we discuss this.
So, going back about three years, I would say I was at the height of my career. As an advocate, as a speaker, as an author. you know, I had, traveled parts of the world to give talks. I had gone on speaking tours. I had multiple awards. I mean, you just, you sort of name it.
And like, my life as a former high school dropout, you know, street kid had really sort of. Turned the corner and I had raised this beautiful family and I had this great career that I was very proud of because I was helping people and I wasn't making big bucks, but I was helping to put food on the table and make car payments and all those other things, right?
And, then all of the sort of anti woke, anti DEI, dare I say, MAGA type behaviors. Really came into focus. And they grew and grew and grew, and my work largely started to dry up because nobody wants to hire a trans person. Not that nobody wants, There are some places for sure that nobody wants to hire a trans person, period.
But what I'm saying is in my particular role, nobody wanted to hire me anymore. I made $12,000 last year. That's a very vulnerable thing for me to admit because it is way less than I have made in the past few years, and I looked at that number when I filed my taxes and I said, I don't think this is working anymore.
I can't control how politics have changed. I can't control that. Companies are currently shying away. From working with people like me who really are just spreading a message of love and acceptance, I'm not lecturing, I'm not trying to tell people who to be or who not to be. I'm just telling my story and that used to resonate in a big way, and it's not now.
And I've talked to other trans people and queer people in the DEI space and they have said very much the same thing. It's just, it's really hard out there right now. So that was all happening at the same time as I was trying to get a TV show off the ground and worked really hard with a production company.
But guess what? As much as the feedback was very, very positive from networks, they loved the idea of the show that I wanted to create. It just isn't the right time politically for that as well. So my hopes were dashed there too, because I really wanted to bring some queer joy into the world with that particular show.
And that all happened, sort of the filing of the taxes , and the show at the same time as my partner lost her job. She'd been working in her industry for 25 years and she got laid off in a restructuring. Same week, so really hard week, lots of change. And I turned to her and I said, well, first of all, I let her have a day.
I let her have a day where she was feeling terrible. Then I also took a day where I was feeling terrible. Then we came back to the drawing board and I said, you know, we keep talking about when we retire and how we'd like to open a coffee shop like a space. That is comfortable and nice and maybe turns into a wine bar at night, or, I mean, who knows, right?
But something lovely. We always thought we'd do that later. What if we did it now? What if we did it right now? What if we pooled every resource we can think of? And we just took the leap. We did the research, we talked at the right people, we did the right trainings, but we did it. We actually did it. And so we turned this really difficult, scary thing.
Into an opportunity and we just closed it on a lease for a coffee shop in Toronto. That is also going to be a space for queer people a safe, happy, comfortable space where you feel at home. So I'm still able to continue the work that I've been doing, but do it out of this.
coffee shop, this cafe that is mine. So I say this because, it's terrifying as all changes. It's really scary. and I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm doing it anyway and I'm so excited to be taking these sudden, unexpected kicks. to the shins and turning them into something beautiful.
And I think that is really what I wanna get across today, is that sudden change is scary for most of us. Maybe not for you, but for most of us, I would say it's very scary. And also it can be the catalyst that changes your whole life for the better.
[00:19:17] Lara: Mm-hmm. One of the things that I've heard multiple times is that being scared and nervous and being excited are very similar, feelings in your body.
Mm-hmm. Like the way that your body brings that up can feel very similar. But with a little bit of like, how am I taking it? Right? So there's like that feeling. I don't know if you've heard people say this, but probably like, oh, I'm real nerve-cited about this,
[00:19:41] Rowan: right? Like, yeah, yeah, exactly
[00:19:43] Lara: of course I'm scared, but like I'm also really excited and so I want to focus on excited and figure out how to deal with the nervous, scared part. But if you only are like, this feeling is a bad feeling, this feeling is a thing that we don't like, bad, things are coming, then that's how it's gonna feel.
And just as we're talking, I'm like, you know, it's so funny because I hate being scared, right? Like, I won't watch a scary movie. I have such difficulty with that. But I think. For me, change. It might make me nervous, but it doesn't make me scared in the same kind of way. And it is. Some of this is mindset, right?
Like if you expect things are gonna work out, if you expect that you have the right people around you to help you, then. The more likely that is to happen. So you were asking earlier, like, how do you make that happen when I said, have the right people around you. Right. And some of that is being really intentional and thinking about the people you have around you.
I have a friend, Jenny Mitchell, who brought up this concept to me of having like. Your personal board of directors, right? Mm-hmm. Like who, if you needed to sit down and like, make a decision about something, the way a board makes a decision, who would you have in the room with you and do you have people in your life like that?
And knowing who they are, whether it's your spouse, your friend, your kid, your mentor, like there could be so many different kinds of people. But knowing that you have figured out that there are people in your life that can be, that for you, can help you weather so many things, and as you're talking about this space that you're going to be opening, that's going to be, first of all, you creating that for other people, right?
That you have created a space where they can find those people. Who would be on their board of directors. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But it's also just creating a community of peers that probably is going to bring even more of those kinds of people in your life that you would put on your board.
[00:21:48] Rowan: Yeah. I think that's the thing, like my whole life I think is about connection.
I spent a lot of time when I was younger, feeling very isolated. I didn't have a lot of friends. I certainly didn't have friends at school. I. And, ever since I've wanted to not only not feel alone, but make sure that other people don't feel alone in my presence. I want everybody to feel welcome and safe and seen and accepted, and that is sort of the gift of all those things that happened before, because now I can bring them in to this space that I'm creating.
I'm so glad, and I can't believe I'm saying this. I had such a big cry this morning. There's, another bit of vulnerability for you, but I sobbed like a baby this morning, and it was because I really took stock of all of the things that I needed to let go. This idea that. Things will turn around anytime now and I'll start getting calls again for gigs that maybe there's another network door that we haven't knocked on, whatever it might be.
Maybe somebody's gonna get in touch with me about consulting. I had to let go of all of that to throw myself into this new project and there is a loss again, when we talk about identity, I was very strongly attached to this identity I had as a very public facing trans advocate, and it was because I could see the change that it was creating.
It wasn't about fame, it wasn't about, attention. It was never about any of those things. It was always about just creating that change. And so the idea of losing all of that made me feel. Like, well, I guess the message I was telling myself rather, was that I could no longer create that change if I didn't have it.
But that's not actually true because now I'm going to be creating change maybe on a micro scale, but every single day. That I am here in the coffee shop, that I am serving wine to people at night who just wanna relax. That I am just, greeting regulars who come in that I'm making room for maybe support groups or queer book clubs or poetry nights or whatever it might be.
I'm helping. To create that connection. Anyway, I'm making that change and I'm helping other people make that change. So I had to say goodbye to what was, to embrace what is, and the change, I think is going to be for the better, not just for me, but maybe for other people who are gonna end up really needing that space.
[00:24:29] Lara: Yeah. And as soon as you said losing, I was like, you're not losing. because to me obviously I am not personally experiencing it and therefore I understand that it's different, right? Like I understand the feeling of losing something and that it feels true in every way when you're going through it.
And like that it is true for you in that moment. And so I'm not taking away that, you're losing
[00:24:53] Rowan: Sure.
[00:24:54] Lara: , Some of it, but at the same time. What I see from where I'm sitting is that you are going to be creating a new platform to be able to make a change. That if somebody comes to you at any given time and says, we would like to pay you to come and speak, you can still do that.
[00:25:13] Rowan: Yep.
[00:25:14] Lara: That we do a podcast and you're affecting and impacting people. In that way. Yeah. So are you losing it or does it look different? And, you know, it's semantics, but that's what all of this conversation is about. It is down to how do I look at something, and even if it's the same thing I'm looking at, if I see it slightly differently, if I call it something different, if I understand it to be something that doesn't make me feel as sad, but it's still the same thing, like I'm very much against toxic positivity or trying to pretend everything is okay all of the time. Like that is not my jam.
[00:25:51] Rowan: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:52] Lara: But I do think that there are opportunities to figure out what's working and how it can keep working in a real world, and how you can view things in a way that feel.
Okay. And I don't always think everything's gonna be wonderful, but I have a really strong belief that things will be okay for me. And I think that's where the anxiety piece is different, right? Like, I'm gonna be okay. Am I gonna be great? We'll see, I don't know, but I will be okay.
And that strong belief within me, I think carries me through scary things.
[00:26:28] Rowan: It's the key to resilience. Honestly. If you look at work from resilience researchers like Dr. Brene Brown, for example, they will tell you that having that core belief about yourself that you can get through anything, just knowing that.
Is what is going to see through the people who have that are the most likely to be successful overall and success is measured many different ways. So I'm not necessarily talking financially or romantically or whatever it is, right? But I'm just saying that overall they tend to land on their feet.
They tend to land on their feet. And I wrote, in my second book, one sunny afternoon, I wrote a chapter called Victimized, not a victim, that I think is relevant here. When I, I'll tell this story 'cause it's actually really funny. I went in to see a doctor and it was a weird situation. This doctor was recommended to me by a friend.
I was pretty sure I had postpartum depression. I was like 21 years old and it had been a few months and I was just feeling really bad. And my, friend said, you need to go see this doctor. He's a little weird, but he's great. And the nice thing about him is he's a family doctor who also does counseling.
Okay. Red flag number one. But again, I'm 21 years old. And also if this doctor who takes my health insurance is going to provide me with counseling for free. Awesome. I'll take it. So I go see this, this, this weird little man. He's a weird little man. And I see him in his actual doctor's office.
And then he takes me into this back counseling room. And so first off, he's like, yeah, you're depressed for sure, and we're gonna need to , start you on some medication, but we should also do counseling. And so he's asking me about my life. Now, up until that point, I had lived in shelters. I had been in rehab, I had had all these things happen to me.
I mean, it was one thing after the next. And I had told myself this story. That I was, all of the things that had happened to me. So he takes out one sheet of paper and he says, tell me the things that have happened to you. Tell me about your life. And I laughed.
I was like, oh, you're gonna need more than one page. He's like, alright. So he takes out this pad of paper. And sure enough, it's like three or four pages of just this happened and then this happened to me, and then this person did that to me and then I ended up like this and isn't my life so hard? And it's really tough.
And he looks at it afterwards. He goes, okay. Wow, Rowan. Yeah, I, I can see that a lot has happened to you. That's a lot to deal with for someone so young. And then bro rips the papers off of the pad, rumples them up. Right in front of me, throws them at the wall behind him and says, but that's all in the past.
Do you know what one of your biggest problems is? You're a victim, Rowan. You play the part of a victim. He's like, yes, all these terrible things happen to you, but they are not you. so here's the first thing I want you to do. Red flag number three or four or five at this point, but okay. He says, I want you to go home and write out, I am not a victim 1000 times like lines on a chalkboard.
Like Bart Simpson, right? But in a notebook I want you to bring it back to me next week. And if you can't do that, we're not proceeding. I was so mad. I stomped out of his office, but I'm also, again, I'm 21 years old. I don't know what therapy looks like. So I go home and I start writing a, I am not a victim, over and over and over.
And, you know, by about Line 600, I really started to get it that I am in fact not a victim. And I went back and like my mindset had completely shifted. I was like, yeah, you know what? You're right, doctor, whoever, I am not a victim. I was victimized. He's like, exactly. Now you can get better. So no, I am not in any way, on any level advocating what this weird little doctor did to me.
Like not at all. I do not think this is proper therapy, but I will say the message got across and that has helped me so much when all of these things happen. Right. That being said, I also think that when you're navigating sudden change. Or change of any kind that is not comfortable, that involves, letting go of something or whatever it might be.
We also need to make room for our feelings. Like my good cry today. I can be really excited about what's down the road and even what's happening right now, but I still have to let go of and deal with what happened before.
[00:30:53] Lara: It's okay to have feelings this is something I learned to do in my forties, Rowan, which is cry like honest to God, I suppressed most of my feelings for a really big part of my life.
Mm-hmm. And I can remember when I was talking myself into not suppressing them in, right? So like there's this feeling when you're about to cry where, I don't know if you know this, but feelings happen in your body, not in your head. I didn't, I didn't know that for a really long time.
[00:31:24] Rowan: Wow.
[00:31:24] Lara: But I know that feeling of I'm gonna cry. Right. And it kind of feels like, for me anyway, it comes like from the middle of my chest and it's gonna come up and then I'm going to start to cry and I am able to vary most of the time. Stop that right before it gets anywhere. Like you're like, Nope, not feeling that.
And so as I started to learn that feeling your feelings is a good idea, I would have to like talk myself through it, right? Like I felt it coming. And it's like, don't stop it. Don't stop it. Don't stop it. It's okay. And then cry.
So when you said you had a good cry was like excellent. it is not in our best interest to bottle in all our feelings. I remember going on stress leave, I think it was almost 18 years ago. And when I went to the doctor, I was like I'm like vibrating inside of my chest and I can't turn my head.
That was like a lot of me not feeling my feelings until my body said, well, I guess we're gonna have to try something else.
[00:32:27] Rowan: Yeah, yeah. Our nervous systems need that release. We need to let go of that stress and crying is honestly one of the healthiest ways we can deal with that. Other ways to do it, you know, in specific moments, can be like.
Putting some music on and dancing around or having a shower or there's all these other ways we can release. But I've done all those in the last, two, three weeks since we've been really planning all this stuff out. I needed that cry. I needed that release. it was like the closing of a chapter.
It was the last little bit before acceptance. I'm gonna just cry this out. You know, my partner came in and gave me a pep talk and held me and literally wiped my tears away. And, okay. Rowan, don't cry again. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. Rowan. Oh wait, no.
I'm supposed to let myself cry. That's right. We were just having this conversation.
[00:33:21] Lara: It's tricky in the middle of a podcast though. I understand that
[00:33:24] Rowan: nobody needs to hear me blow my nose right now. but really, like, it was just this really important moment and I feel like I was able to turn the page.
Accept that my life is going in this direction now and this direction is something I'm really, really looking forward to, but would've never happened, or at least not have happened in the way that it's happening and certainly in the timeframe that it's happening in, if all the bad stuff that we didn't plan for hadn't happened.
[00:33:54] Lara: There's so many things I wanna say, and I don't know where to start with all of that. One of them is just that, and I come back to this a lot. It's a lot of what's in my book, right? Is this whole, what were we taught to be that is unnecessary? And one of them is to be strong. And how many times have you even maybe done yourself, had like one of your kids start to cry and you're like, don't cry.
Don't cry. You're okay. You're okay. But like, maybe they're not okay right away, and that's okay also, letting people feel their feelings is not something that we've been taught to do. What we were taught to do all our lives was to just get through it, right? Like it's not like don't wallow in your feelings, but that translates into don't have feelings.
And that's not actually a thing that's good for us. We have feelings. They're not all positive. So if we allow ourselves to feel your feelings, then when you're going through change, that's difficult, you're not feeling like things are falling apart because you're having big feelings. Does that make sense?
just because things feel hard doesn't mean they're breaking apart. It's just feeling yucky right now. It's just like angsty or upsetting or I don't know what, but like just because things feel bad doesn't mean we're done. Life is blown up. gonna live in our van down by the river.
[00:35:20] Rowan: Oh, the van down by the river.
you know, if I may, as a trans person, I think that, I call them transitional feelings, right? Because they are those really big feelings, and that's a transitional feeling can happen in any unexpected moment, right? That includes. If your partner, you know your boyfriend, girlfriend, whoever it is, proposes to you.
Or you propose to someone and they say yes, and you're over the moon elated. I mean, it's just the best day of your whole life and you're so excited and you can't wait to tell everybody. And that feeling is so strong, but it's not going to last. It's not meant to last. It's wonderful and it feels great.
And then it passes because we move into the next phase of our life where now we're engaged to somebody and now we're maybe planning a wedding or figuring out when we're gonna move in together or whatever it might be. It's the same thing like moving from perhaps a floundering situation.
Into taking a risk, you know, like I'm doing right now and pouring my life savings into a coffee shop. going there, there had to be that transitional moment where I was letting all the feelings out and that's, I think that's so good. I. I'm sad. I learned to cry in rehab when I was 14 years old.
Like, that's what I really, you know, apparently you can do that instead of drink. That's what I learned by the way. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah.Yeah. Cool. Really good to know that early. but that has allowed me to embrace crying for a long time. Although I will say men, if you are listening. It is harder to cry with testosterone in your system.
It is harder to get there, but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't do it. I do know that that barricade is there. there's a hurdle, an extra hurdle I have to get over now for my feelings to permeate my eyeballs, but I feel so much better when it happens. So please, please
make room to cry.
[00:37:24] Lara: Yeah. Feelings are not a bad thing, and I think that that's where so much of this comes from. Like, it's okay to be scared. It's okay to be uncomfortable. It's okay to be sad. And so if the sudden thing happens to you and all of those feelings are there. That's not because you are weak. It's not because you've done something wrong.
It's not because life and the whole world is falling apart, even though it feels like that sometimes. Like legitimately, I fully recognize that, but I think it's harder when we don't allow ourselves to do that if we haven't given ourselves permission. To feel our feelings. Then on top of everything else we're going through, we are now beating ourselves up for not being strong and capable and the kind of person who can deal with these things.
And I don't wanna pretend that I don't struggle with things, right? Like, trust me, I struggle with a whole lot of things. I'm not, saying that I deal with all change without any, blips at all. But I do think that allowing ourselves to just feel and not think that we have to be a certain way, whether they're not, living up to some kind of ideal or something like that, gives us room to say, what's next gives us room for what do I want?
again, acknowledging privilege of not feeling like that means I'm gonna lose. My home and all of that kind of thing. But I do think that there's something to be said for, alright, then what?
[00:38:53] Rowan: Yeah. Then what? Yeah, and when you, talk to a lot of really successful people and again, I don't wanna equate success with money.
I wanna equate success with people able to live a life that is as authentic to them as possible. I think that to me is the measure of success. a lot of them have gone through a whole lot to get there. They didn't just grow up, say, you know what I wanna do? I wanna open a skateboard shop by the ocean, and teach kids how to skateboard and build their own boards or whatever it might be.
Usually. They had to go through loss to get there. And what we see as sudden change often also includes loss, unfortunately. But it does, it could be loss of a career, loss of a loved one, loss of perhaps,mobility. and I, can't really speak to that one personally, but I know some people that that has happened to right where , they suddenly can't.
use their bodies in the same way or whatever it might be, but they go through this type of loss, some kind of loss, and feel lost themselves for a bit before they pivot, before they figure out that they can go in a different direction. so listening to their stories when we're going through change and it feels really scary, can provide.
sort of a lighthouse effect where we feel like we're in a storm and over in the distance there is that light. And that's what I'm hoping to do too, is sort of be that lighthouse for somebody down the road when they're like, oh wow. I just feel so lost because everything has changed and I don't know what to do now and I feel rudderless.
you know, I felt rudderless too, and I actually have for a while now. And now I hope. In two years or something, when somebody comes into my shop and maybe shares that kind of stuff with me, I can say, yeah, I've been there, I've been there, and now I'm here. And I wouldn't change a thing.
again, we didn't have notes for this, but I personally feel like I got through everything that I wanted to say and I felt I needed to say, but I really wanted to do this episode because. I wanna empower somebody else who might be going through those changes, both as somebody who has been through some and gotten through the other side, a better person, and somebody who is currently in the middle of one of the scariest things he's ever done after all those other scary things, and really wants to believe and has to believe that that unexpected change is leading to something better.
[00:41:24] Lara: Yeah. remembering that we're not meant to do things alone is also a big one, right? So when we ask for help, when we talk to people and try to learn from them, it's not because we weren't good enough to do it alone, it's because that's the better way of doing things, in my opinion, right? Use your community, talk to people.
It's really hard to have a clear picture of what's true. When you are in the middle of panic, you need other people to be able to reflect back to you what's actually true in certain moments and that's what I, hope that people get the most out of this, is that there is hope and that there's understanding that when things feel difficult, it's not because they're doing something wrong.
And
the whole, then what? Like look for that.
[00:42:13] Rowan: Hmm. you're like a podcast mom. I'm like, it's okay, champ. I'm podcast dad. But you're podcast mom. when you say these things, I really hope we do some video at some point so people can watch my face as you are sharing this really powerful, insightful, and yet sweet, because you're the one saying it.
lesson, and this little bit of guidance and I'm like, I need you. Thank you. Thank you podcast mom. I needed that. I really needed that today. I appreciate you.
[00:42:45] Lara: I will take it. I like podcast mom. I take it,
[00:42:48] Rowan: it's your new title. Put it on your business cards.
[00:42:50] Lara: Excellent.
[00:42:52] Rowan: Thank you for joining us today.
If you like what you hear, please give us a follow, give us a review, subscribe to us, follow us on our substack, anything you wanna do to show support for this, lovely little show of ours. We love doing it. Every week
[00:43:09] Lara: we do. Thank you.
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